What battle has gone on longer than Corvette vs. 911?

"Manuél Ferrari" (manuelferrari)
10/29/2013 at 02:22 • Filed to: Corvette, 911

I can't think of any other two sports cars that have been in constant production and constant competition for as long as the Corvette and 911. Can anyone else?

This piece is from 2008 but still a fun read.

http://rawautos.com/2008/02/corvet…

DISCUSSION (23)

Anon > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 02:28

BMW and Mercedes?

Manuél Ferrari > Anon
10/29/2013 at 02:31

I was referring to two specific sport car models. But yes BMW and Mercedes are good foes. They are like Microsoft and Apple. BMW was down to its last penny and almost got bought out by Mercedes, just like Apple nearly went belly up and had to take money from Microsoft to stay afloat.

brakesnow > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 02:33

Great piece, and more relevant than ever seeing how the C7 is finally fighting the 911 on the last frontier, the interior. I love porsches and their heritage but you just get soo much more for your money with the Corvette. Also, 'Murica.

But in response to the question, The first two thoughts that came to me, Civic Vs. Corolla and S-class Vs. 7-Series are both predated by Corvette Vs. 911. I give up.

Manuél Ferrari > brakesnow
10/29/2013 at 02:41

Yeah the fight is really relevant now that the C7 is so much nicer on the inside. And it looks more exotic on the outside too. Some people may not like it but I've seen it in person and it definitely pops.

It's also funny how the cars are closer in size now that the 911 has grown so much.

911 Classic Length: 168.9"
997 911 Length: 176.8"

Corvette C2 Length: 179.3"
Corvette C7 Length: 176.9"

The Vette shrank while the 911 grew...

brakesnow > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 02:49

Wow. Had no idea they were that close in size! And to think the 991 is two inches longer than the 997! Never would have chosen the 911 as the bigger car before now.

Manuél Ferrari > brakesnow
10/29/2013 at 02:57

I couldn't believe it until I read it either! The 991 still has the weight edge but it costs a lot more. There will be future versions of the C7 that use weight saving measures. 'Murica is bringing its A game with the C7.

Oh and Civic vs. Corolla and S-class vs 7 Series are good nominees. I was just focusing on sports cars because they are less of them so it's hard to find models for historical battles. And they fight each other on the track so it's fun to look at which car was the better performer through the generations.

Clutchman83 > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 02:58

I never really considered them direct rivals to be honest. A front engine V-8 sports/muscle car vs a Rear engine flat 6 sports coupe... I get that they have butted heads over the last 15 years in motor sports but on the street? I've always considered them to be in different categories with buyers I guess. The Vette being for the red blooded proud to be a 'Murican type and the 911 being more for the I'm a rich successful asshole type. I imagine the typical Vette owner to be a 50 something guy wearing a Hawaiian shirt while the 911 guys are all wearing suits or European soccer jerseys. Performance wise YES! Demographic wise no...

Manuél Ferrari > Clutchman83
10/29/2013 at 03:05

LOL. I guess I'm the asshole type since I have the 911. I don't own a soccer jersey though. But maybe I should buy one. That would be pretty funny to play to the stereotype. I could buy a visor too and fake an accent.

I think the 911 vs. Corvette battles in motorsports have been going on longer than the past 15 years. But I know what you mean about them being for different buyers. But that's what's interesting - while their engines are in different spots they're now closer in size and weight and attracting different buyers than they did in the past. I think GM was successful in getting the attention of younger people. I'm in my mid 30s and the C7 looks awesome to me. I would definitely like to have a new Vette at some time in the future, hopefully before I'm in my 50s and wearing Hawaiian T-Shirts to this place on Saturday nights:

http://www.tommybahama.com/TBG/Stores_Res…

brakesnow > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 03:14

D'oh, just realized you specified sports car rivalries in the description, I must have glazed over that part. Mustang Vs. Camaro?

But, C7 Z06....

Kinja'd!!!

I really think that this generation of Z06 is going to be the one to finally beat Porsche, and not just in the raw numbers, but also in driving feel.

Clutchman83 > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 03:18

Aww man, now I kinda feel like a jerk. I'm 30 and have been fantasizing about a Corvette since the C5 came out. Honestly that generation was when I felt that GM actually took an interest in sports car racing. Were they really putting much effort into it before that? I can't think of a factory racing program outside of Trans Am that the company backed prior to that with the Vette.

And I also think the 911 is a great car, I just always loved the idea of a front engined American design whooping the crap out of the Germans.

Manuél Ferrari > brakesnow
10/29/2013 at 03:23

Haha love the pic. That's how I feel about the C7 Z06 too. I've seen people race the C6 Z06 with the track pack and it is a beast. The new version will be even better. And I do think it might beat out the 991 Carrera S in driving feel. I'd still take the 991 GT3 over all of them but it's way more expensive than the Z06 will be...

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 03:29

I'd say the Corvette has always been a closer competitor to the Mercedes SL, which has been around since 54 and the Corvette since 53.

Manuél Ferrari > Clutchman83
10/29/2013 at 03:30

Haha don't feel like a jerk, it's all in good fun. I actually do want to get a Euro soccer team jersey now as a joke. I'll pull up to a sports bar and complain that the Man-U game isn't on TV.

I don't think the Corvette had the same consistent factory support as the 911 did through the years. But it was still a very popular car for racing in the hands of privateers. Here is a cool link:

http://www.corvettemuseum.org/specs/2006/Rac…

I'm just really curious to drive the C7 now. It seems like it will be a lot of fun.

Manuél Ferrari > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
10/29/2013 at 03:33

That was probably true in the old days. But the Corvette got sportier over time and the SL got softer and heavier. The SL has been a dedicated cruiser for a while now. It can't be used on the track at all really.

But the rumored SLC that's in development should be a nice new sports car to compete with both the Corvette and 911.

Manuél Ferrari > brakesnow
10/29/2013 at 03:39

Forgot - Mustang vs. Camaro is a great pick. That has to be the longest running battle between two muscle cars that have been in constant production. And now that the recent cars handle so well they're more sport cars than muscle cars. They're kind of hard to define. 2+2 sport cars with sedan-ish proportions?

GhostZ > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 03:48

Chrysler Imperial VS Lincoln Continental VS Cadillac Fleetwood (Sixty Special)

The names changed occasionally, but the spirit stayed the same. The three halo vehicles for the respective brands were top-of-the-line American luxury. They literally defined the term "Luxo-barge" as we know it today. They were known for silky smooth suspensions that sagged and wobbled with age, 6000lb+ curb weights, trunks big enough to fit some import cars, and being exceptional limos.

Imperial: 1926 - 1993 (as its own marquee from 1955-1983)

Continental: 1940-2002 (production was missing a few pre-war years, but that's because they only produced a few a year and sold slowly) it was a 61 year war.

Sixty Special/Fleetwood : 1937 - 1996 (badged as a Fleetwood or Fleetwood Brougham through the 80s, but kept the "sixty special" name as a special trim). The "fleetwood" name came from the company that put bodies on the Sixty Special and was a trim level for most of the years.

That makes for 53 years where the three Luxo-barges were sold alongside eachother, just barely beating the current 50 years of Corvette VS 911 war. It would have gone on longer, (until 2001) but while Chrysler renamed their car the LHS instead of the Imperial in the late 90s, Cadillac dropped theirs altogether.

Looking up the dates for these cars was depressing though, to see how far they came:

EDIT: WAS GOING TO POST PHOTOS BUT KINJA IS BEING A BITCH

So just Google Image Search the Continental, Imperial, and Fleetwood for 1940, 1970, and 1990.

I'm going to go cry now.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 04:07

I was going to say Lamborghini vs Ferrari, but the first Lambo was built in 1963, well after the first Vette. Hmm. Well, here's a pic of a 350 GT anyway.

Kinja'd!!!

GhostZ > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 04:56

Top comment on that article:

The ZR-1 just clocked a 7:19 on the nurburgring and the 2012 Z06 got a 7:22 you cant beat that kind of speed for less than 100k

Ooooooh man. Whooo. That's nostalgia.

2011 was a good year for ring times.

Clutchman83 > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 05:17

I agree, the C7 Vette WILL be fun! I'm partial to cars that like turning, and don't cost 6 figures.

Party-vi > Clutchman83
10/29/2013 at 07:49

"rich successful asshole type"

See this is an issue, as most Porsche owners I've met aren't rich assholes.

brakesnow > Manuél Ferrari
10/29/2013 at 14:34

Amen, If I was given the choice between a C7 Z06 and a 4.0 GT3 RS, I would probably go for the RS(In euro spec trim, with the scaffolding inside and all). That thing is just a masterpiece.

You're right about the Camaro/Mustang Rivalry being more of a muscle thing, but those cars did win some road races/rallies, back in the day, so that makes them sport-ish? The definition of a sports car is impossible to truly define, there are so many ways to approach it. Although I would say it would be a car that makes little to no compromise in its mission to be the best-driving best-performing car it can be.

Manuél Ferrari > brakesnow
10/29/2013 at 14:56

The 4.0 GT3 RS is a beast. It's so rare and expensive though. I wish Porsche had built more of them. I wonder how expensive it will be to maintain that rare engine...

It is impossible to define sports car since so many cars are used for motorsports, even if they're not built for performance above all else. I think your definition is a pretty good one. A pure sports car is built to be the best performing car possible with no sacrifices made for luggage space or rear leg room. The Corvette has no rear seats and while the 911 now has slightly more leg room in the back it's still not a true 4 seat car (and I think the increased rear leg room was more of a by product of Porsche stretching the car's length for other reasons).

When a car is based on a sedan's platform it can still be a very, very good sports car. It's just not a purpose-built sports car. The interesting thing to me about American muscle cars is that they're closing in on the German sports sedans. Cars like the Mustang have now more handling prowess to go with their power, while German sports sedans have been growing larger as they get more powerful.

Overall it's a good time to be into cars. Lots of high performance cars out there that have power and can handle.

7liter12598723 > Clutchman83
11/08/2013 at 19:30

Well, GM had a quasi-ban of corporate supported racing for quite a long time, but the C4 did have a pretty good racing pedigree. It's just that it was SCCA vs FIA, and after 84, didn't get covered very well.

In the late 70s and early 80s, SCCA Showroom stock was very popular, but in 84, the new C4 went 19 for 19, and got banned by name for 85. So SCCA started a series called Corvette Challenge, which was never as popular as old Showroom stock, but did steal enough attention from Showroom Stock that Showroom Stock died.

The 90s was the beginning of a big boom for FIA GT racing, and C5.R represented a great leap forward in terms of Chevrolet racing support, but it wasn't without precedent. Corvettes have been raced since there's been Corvettes, and while GM has tried in the past to quash such doings, they've never managed to prevent it entirely.